Wolf Blitzer Reports - Will Addiction Hurt Limbaugh's Credibility

CNN / Wolf Blitzer

BLITZER:

Welcome back to CNN.

Dealing with addiction to painkillers, what steps may Rush Limbaugh be taking right now to try to recover?

We'll get to that, first though a quick check of the latest headlines.

Seven people are dead and at least eight others are hurt after a church bus ran into the back of a stopped tractor trailer truck. The accident happened today on Interstate 20 in northeastern Louisiana. A portion of the interstate was closed.

Several homes in a murdered Florida gun dealer's neighborhood are still evacuated today after police discovered hundreds of military weapons and bombs inside his house. Scott Quinn (ph) was found dead in the home yesterday. He was licensed to own the weapons now being recovered. Police are not releasing further details on his death.

Another announcement in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, Congressman Dennis Kucinich a member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Ohio formally made his bid today from the chambers of City Hall in his hometown of Cleveland.

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:

I'm running for president of the United States to challenge this system which traps so many of America's children and adults in fear, in violence and poverty and makes us pay for wars we don't want and causes us to sacrifice our children's futures.

BLITZER:

Meanwhile, someone else is at Rush Limbaugh's microphone today as fans deal with their shock over the conservative talk radio super star's admission that he's addicted to painkilling drugs.

BLITZER (voice-over):

A dominating presence clearly missing on the radio.

TOM SULLIVAN, GUEST HOST, "THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW":

This is the time to show your support.

BLITZER:

While Rush Limbaugh's long-time friend, Sacramento- based radio host Tom Sullivan, filled in for him today, the airwaves are filled with talk of Limbaugh's future. Will he beat his admitted addiction to painkillers? Will he face criminal charges for allegedly buying painkillers on the black market? Can Limbaugh and the conservative movement as a whole keep their momentum in the media?

MICHAEL JACKSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:

I don't think he will see a diminished audience at all.

BLITZER:

But Limbaugh's credibility is a huge potential problem. He's now being lumped in with well-known moralists who have fallen from grace.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:

There's a lot of hypocrisy, at least in the eyes of the media who are covering this story. He's always had a very moralistic tone to his program, and as a result, I think that his credibility has been permanently wounded, in the same way that I can't look at Bill Bennett the way that I used to look at him talking about virtues, now knowing that he likes thousand-dollar pulls of the slot machine.

BLITZER:

Limbaugh's past comments on a range of issues are being picked apart. But often, his defenders are right there, as with this remark made eight years ago. Quote: "Drug use, some might say, is destroying this country. And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs, using drugs, importing drugs. And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up."

LARRY ELDER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:

To be fair to Rush, a few years later, he pulled back from that position and suggested a licensing or regulation scheme. So I'm not quite sure what his position right now is on drugs.

BLITZER:

It is now evident, Rush Limbaugh has reached that stature. Even out of sight and in treatment, he remains in our consciousness. And the one who may understand it all better than anyone is Limbaugh himself, whose remarks to me on CNN's "LATE EDITION" four and a half years ago now seem prescient.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, TALK SHOW HOST:

Let's face it, Wolf, the mainstream press plays a large role in determining what sticks to people.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER:

To give us a little bit better idea of what people such as Rush Limbaugh face in trying to overcome their addiction, we're joined now by two guests. Jake Epperly is director of the Midwest Rapid Opiate Detox Center, and Will Stelcher is a recovering painkiller addict, who will share with us some of his personal experience.

Thanks to both of you for joining us. And William, let me begin with you. Tell us, briefly, what you went through. You believe you were addicted to this painkiller, OxyContin?

WILLIAM STELCHER, RECOVERING PAINKILLER ADDICT:

Oh, absolutely. I don't believe it; I know it.

BLITZER:

So what happened? How did you get off of it?

STELCHER:

Through Jake's program, actually. I had to go through a rapid detox and 30-day program.

BLITZER:

What did that entail? And obviously, what you went through is not necessarily what Rush Limbaugh is going through right now, but tell us the 30-day program you went through.

STELCHER:

It's called new hope, and it's here in Chicago. And it was a bunch of people telling me a lot of things that I didn't want to hear. And I think that that's truly the only way I could have gotten through it. Because, you know, had I been doing what I wanted to do, I would have been doing the exact opposite and still be on medication.

BLITZER:

Briefly walk through those 30 days. What was it like?

STELCHER:

It was me fighting, kicking, screaming, not wanting to be there, telling everybody how much they didn't understand me and my physical problems, and just me trying to slowly unwrap the onion, if you will, kind of look at myself and the things that I had been doing.

BLITZER:

How difficult was it to get off OxyContin?

STELCHER:

It's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

BLITZER:

Well, describe a little bit, what kind of physical pain you went through.

STELCHER:

Oh, OK. Just knowing that I would be sick was what prolonged me from getting off of it. It's the worst illness. And I know that they've portrayed these things on television, but it's like being sick with the flu for about 10 days straight, where you throw up from the very, very deepest parts of you inside, and throw it up and you sweat and, fortunately for my wife, being involved in my life, who didn't abandon me, she was there to empty the garbage of vomit, if you will. I'm sorry for being so graphic. But -- and just make sure I didn't die. You feel like you're going to die at any moment.

BLITZER:

Jake, you run this detox center. Obviously, you've had a lot of experience in dealing with this problem that Rush Limbaugh is facing right now. What is the best way, from your vantage point, to beat this addiction?

JAKE EPPERLY, DIR., MIDWEST RAPID OPIATE DETOX CENTER:

Well, you never quite beat the addiction, per se. You can get yourself into recovery, Wolf. And like, you know, William had talked about, he had many failed attempts at trying to get off of this drug, OxyContin and other narcotics, because of the severity of the withdrawal. And so just getting off the drug is only part of it. And like he said, going into a residential treatment was the second part of it.

What we have found is what's very effective, particularly with OxyContin, is anesthesia-assisted rapid opiate detoxification, where they are put under anesthesia, and probably 90 percent of the withdrawal, the stress and the length of withdrawal is greatly diminished, and they're able to enter into structured residential care much sooner and get onto the road to recovery.

BLITZER:

Is this a struggle that they have to go through the rest of their lives, every single day, worrying about this addiction, from your vantage point, from your experience?

EPPERLY:

No. I mean, it's not a daily struggle, per se. Recovery shouldn't be that. They talk about that, I believe, in the book, Alcoholics Anonymous, about being recovered from this hopeless state of mind and body. And when someone is stick and addicted to this, you know, drug, and have a dependency, they have a hopeless state of mind and body. Their body is addicted to it, they're thinking about it, they're obsessed about it.

And today, I mean, Bill is a good example of the -- physically over the withdrawal from the drugs. He doesn't have this continuing obsession. But you know, like I'm sure Bill does, and many other thousands of people, you work a daily recovery program, whether it's from going through a 12-step program or continuing counseling, or whatever. BLITZER: A lot of people, Jake, take OxyContin. If they take it appropriately, based on the recommendations of the pharmaceutical manufacturer, based on what their doctors are telling them, they won't get addicted to this drug. Is that your assessment?

EPPERLY:

I have found that not to be true. If an individual takes a therapeutic dose of OxyContin for more than 30 days, more than likely, they will have a physical dependence, whether they have a physical and genetic propensity for it or not.

BLITZER:

We might get a different perspective on that, coming up. William, let me go back to you and ask you, how are you doing, how long has it been since you stopped using OxyContin and how you're doing right now?

STELCHER:

It's been about seven months. And I'm doing well, fortunately, because of the structured program that Jake is talking about. And it really is a day at a time at times, because I'm dealing with the same similar problems as Rush. I've had three spinal surgeries. And once you get rid of the medication, you still have to deal with the pain.

BLITZER:

And are you in pain right now?

STELCHER:

Absolutely.

BLITZER:

All right, well, we'll have to leave it right there. Hope you feel better. William Stelcher, thanks very much for joining us. Jake Epperly, appreciate your joining us as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Now, let's get a response from the pharmaceutical industry over these drugs that are getting such a bad rap, at least over these past several days. We contacted Purdue Pharma, and here are some excerpts of a statement that they gave us. "Media reports frequently describe OxyContin as highly addictive without distinguishing between the risk of developing addiction in pain patients who properly use the medication, under a doctor's care, to treat their pain, and the risk of developing addiction in drug abusers who misuse the medication to get high. The abuse of OxyContin," the statement goes on to say, "is a problem that Purdue Pharma takes with the utmost seriousness and is the reason why the company is working hard in cooperation with law enforcement and regulators to prevent or lessen the problem. But no federal database or study has ever listed OxyContin or Oxycodone, for that matter, as the most abused prescription pain medicine."

We requested to speak with a representative of Purdue Pharma. It instead offered the name of a guest that we contacted, and we agreed to invite her on our program. Dr. Sally Satel is a psychiatrist here in the Washington area. She's affiliated with the American Enterprise Institute. Sally, thanks very much for joining us. How dangerous of a drug is this OxyContin?

DR. SALLY SATEL, PSYCHIATRIST:

For pain patients, OxyContin is a very effective and actually safe drug, if taken as prescribed. People do not have to take successively (ph) higher doses. They don't get high. The problem is when people chop it up and snort it or inject it. And then you can get a very powerful high.

BLITZER:

But doctors prescribe it for a reason. It works. What is the regular dose? How long should people be on this medication?

SATEL:

Well, doctors should have a very high threshold for prescribing it. In fact, the FDA has only approved OxyContin for moderate to severe pain. That's pain that comes with cancer, crippling arthritis, degenerative joint diseases. It's not for a toothache, it's not for post-op pain. And unfortunately, I have seen some doctors prescribe it for that.

BLITZER:

And they shouldn't be doing that.

SATEL:

That is definitely wrong.

BLITZER:

The original prescription, assuming Rush Limbaugh took this medication after he had some back surgery, some severe back pain, was appropriate?

SATEL:

Conceivably, yes. And there are some people with chronic, unending pain who are, literally, on it indefinitely. You think about it in the same way you might think of having to be on insulin if you are diabetic. And you would take it and function at a perfectly high level.

BLITZER:

We just heard this gentleman who runs this detox center in Chicago, in the Midwest over there, say that if you take it for any prolonged period, you're going to get addicted. It's highly addictive, he says.

SATEL:

There is a distinction between addiction, what Rush Limbaugh has talked about and what we think when we talk about drug addicts. That's compulsive use of a drug despite negative consequences, to regulate one's mood. What that doctor referred to -- and I agree with him -- so if you take these medications, if you took them, if I took them, for probably at least two weeks, we would become what's called physiologically dependent. Which would mean that if the medication were stopped abruptly, we would have withdrawal symptoms.

But that's why doctors don't stop these medications abruptly. They taper people off. And folks who were taking it for pain, taking it as prescribed, do very well with that kind of taper. I work in a methadone clinic, I think you mentioned, and I see, unfortunately, a number of OxyContin addicts. But someone who has a problem with abusing OxyContin, when you look back on the history, when you scratch the surface, you often find a previous problem with pills, or alcohol, or even heroin, or possibly even chronic depression, and people use it as self-medication.

BLITZER:

Now, let's go back to Rush Limbaugh for a second. You obviously are not treating him. We don't know all the details of his case, but based on what we do know, based on the widespread reports and based on what he himself has said, give us a little sense of what he's going through now, and the challenges that he will face in the weeks, months, perhaps years, to come. SATEL: Well, the acute withdrawal, the patient you had interviewed gave a picture that I'm not that familiar with. He, basically, was not helped at all medically with the withdrawal period, which is usually one to three weeks maximum, if one has been on a medication for quite a while.

There are all kinds of medications we can use to make that a much less physically harmful -- not harmful but unpleasant experience. So I'm surprised he wasn't medicated. I would think that certainly if someone comes to see me and they want to be detoxed, we have all kinds of medications to take the edge off, so they're not in pain. Not anesthetize, that's another option, but something that will last about two or three weeks of slow taper. Then it becomes usually a matter of rehabilitation, of counseling, to get at what probably is an underlying problem.

BLITZER:

Best case scenario for Rush Limbaugh. When do we hear him back on the radio?

SATEL:

Depending how his treatment program is constructed, he can be back in a month, depending how much supervision he has and how he's feeling.

BLITZER:

Twenty million of his listeners are hoping he will be back in a month. But we shall see.

SATEL:

I hope -- wish him well.